So I was told I could do anything, and that I shouldn't "throw my life away" having children - so I went for it and got a degree in journalism, worked for free, applied for the internships that mostly all went to people with connections (very nepotistic world,), ran out of money and ended up with a career in marketing (then had babies and had to unpick the shame that came with making that choice.)
In marketing, I did a lot of writing, but it was always writing to sell, not to emote or to incite anything but a desire to invest in a product. The most money I've made for writing the way I want to is on Substack 😂
I often say to my husband, I really hope the kids don't want to do anything creative with their lives, and are happy to just do a job that pays the bills, because this path is soul destroying. I'm not sure it's responsible to tell them they can do anything, because I know how upsetting it can be when you don't get to do the anything you've set your heart on, but at the same time don't want to limit them - it's a really hard balance.
Yes exactly this. I think we’ve been there haven’t we so we can share those experiences with them. I hate being underemployed and undervalued and similarly have worked hard to then be up against others who are more valued for the wrong reasons in a similar industry and it is hard. It’s a struggle when you are trying to break into that world and previous success doesn’t guarantee future success. Also the kids thing: it has changed things and it’s getting harder with that.
I wonder how I can get him into dentistry or something like that 😂
I think about this a lot. I would never want my daughter to study literature like I did - of all the interesting things you can do, why choose the one where it is almost impossible to make a living. But my school was just focussed on how many people went to Oxford/Cambridge (great for rankings!) - setting people up for a decent career wasn't a priority and, when our teachers were growing up, it was still true that any old degree would get you a job. You can only base your choices on the info you have - but there weren't many jobs for literature graduates 15 years ago either!
That’s so true, my school was the same they were very frustrated by anyone who didn’t even attempt to get into oxbridge. Perhaps the whole idea of career longevity is outdated anyway, do people still stay in the same jobs for 40+years? I guess some do. Thanks for reading Susannah.
I'm a doctor and often feel very lucky that I have guaranteed work with defined hours, and that I can feel fairly confident that I can do 'something useful' just by turning up. I think I'd really struggle with the feelings you describe in a similar job, but I'm so thankful there are people like you doing your work because we need life to be beautiful and full of wonder and creativity! Otherwise what's the point!? It takes courage and I'm full of admiration, and fingers crossed your job climate improves soon.
Such a great post Kylie, you've really made me think about this. (Also You Choose is a favourite in our house)
I did Spanish and Sociology at uni,planned to be an English teacher in Spain, but then I met my husband and stayed here. I fell into uni admin and management, did that for 14 years. Then I retrained as a Coach and have been trying to build that up for a few years, but I haven't been very successful despite my efforts. It's disheartening and until my youngest goes to full time school, financially it doesn't make sense to work part time even. Things are up in the air with my husbands job atm too so a stressful time. My 10 yo daughter wants to be a singer and my 7yo middle son wants to do a hybrid job of 'being a Pokemon duel player and a comedian'! I do wonder if it will be worth them going to uni when they are older, and what jobs will look like for them, I want them to do what they love but you've also got to be practical too haven't you.
Yeah it’s disheartening and I can vouch too that it is just limiting trying to build a business when children are still a responsibility. You can only do what you can do! I’ve been doing so much in person networking which when I had my kids around was impossible to attempt- it’s also something that takes time and I am learning that it’s taking more time than my pockets can afford at nursery but we take a step forward two steps back, another step forward, we’ll get there in the end!
I think there is too much pressure to find work that is fulfilling and uses all our gifts and skills. Whilst I'm very privileged now to have self employed work that is creative and fulfilling and pays well I've also had jobs that weren't stretching at all and left me with lots of creative energy outside of work to do other things. My work now takes a lot of my physical, emotional and creative energy.
I've spoken with a few dads recently who are choosing to not apply for more interesting (and more stressful) jobs now so they have energy for their kids whilst the kids are young. But as you say many people don't get to choose and most of us face very real financial and practical limits when it comes to work especially when we are parents.
Our western culture focuses so much on individual dreams but does not acknowledge the system we live in or the relational impact on our friendships, families and communities of moving for work and to follow career opportunities. At the other end so many have to move away from they grew up due to lack of affordable housing or work.
Yes so much to think about thanks for reading Faith. Also interesting insight on dads - I guess we only have a limited amount of energy and what we want to do at the start of our careers invariably changes as well, and that’s nothing to feel guilty about.
I hadn’t thought about the moving away thing as that is us all over, although not miles away, there is even less work for me where my parents live! Makes you wonder if life would just be easier if I had gone into another career!
This is such a thought provoking question to be asking and I completely agree that there are unexamined restrictions around the idea that we can do/be anything (and that question of whether we SHOULD do whatever we want is an interesting one as well). I love the Japanese concept of Ikigai as a potential way of finding a ‘balanced’ personal response to these questions. I really like the idea of looking for the intersection of:
What you love
What you are good at
What the world needs
What you can get paid for
It’s obviously an idealised model and individual answers to each of those elements will likely change over time. I think it sometimes also requires a shift in perspective. I used to have a very obviously purpose driving career - working with children and young people, first as a youth worker, then in a pastoral role in a secondary school, then as a specialist teacher in literacy and English. My ‘why’ was always around wanting to support and nurture children and young people where they were - it was both what I loved and what I was good at (and what the world needs!). However, it sadly became increasingly difficult to be paid (well) for it. I moved from youth worker to working in schools because funding for youth service disappeared. And after several years in schools I started to lose my love for it because the system I was working in made it hard to meet young people where THEY were - it demanded they be dragged to where the system was. So I then had a dramatic change of career in an attempt to recover my own wellbeing. I moved into PR because I loved to write, was good at it and (in a commercial setting) could be paid for it. But I felt I’d lost touch with the ‘purpose’ bit - what the world needs. As I’ve grown in my new career, though, I’ve realised something the world needs is more private organisations that do the ‘right’ thing - treat people well, look after the planet, contribute positively to society etc. So that became my purpose focus. I work in a commercially driven, private sector business but I found a career path that enabled me to:
✨write and think creatively (what I love)
✨support and nurture people (what I’m good at)
✨develop people & planet centred business practices (what the world needs)
By working my way through various roles to become:
✨director of business development for a PR consultancy (what I can get paid for!)
My professional life looks wildly different from what I ever imagined for myself and it isn’t ‘vocationally driven’ in the way it once was, but allowing my understanding of what I love, what I’m good at and what the world needs to evolve, I’ve found a new and different professional fulfilment.
Thank you for this post, it really got me thinking! (Hence the super long comment!!😅)
This is amazing, Jen what a great response. I an thrilled it has provoked thought and the ideas here are a welcome support to my own piece. Those points are really interesting and I think my quibble is always the world doesn’t need this many graphic designers and maybe that’ll always be a sticking point unless I find more purpose driven work perhaps. It is interesting as well what you say about the pay for jobs the world might need not being there; and I think that says alot about us as a culture or society and how we value certain work. So much to think about. Thank you!
I can understand your quibbles but I also think the world genuinely needs as many artists as we can get! Visual communication is powerful and important, it improves accessibility and offers beauty in both expected and unexpected ways. Your work as a graphic designer has value in the world, even if you’re not working in a ‘classically’ purpose driven way.
I completely appreciate that it’s a challenge finding clients and opportunities that fulfil that purpose element though. ❤️
Absolutely thanks Jen that makes me feel better. Trouble is it’s all following the money and that’s not usually where the purpose driven stuff is although I’m sure there are exceptions. Likely it’s about finding that balance too!
So I was told I could do anything, and that I shouldn't "throw my life away" having children - so I went for it and got a degree in journalism, worked for free, applied for the internships that mostly all went to people with connections (very nepotistic world,), ran out of money and ended up with a career in marketing (then had babies and had to unpick the shame that came with making that choice.)
In marketing, I did a lot of writing, but it was always writing to sell, not to emote or to incite anything but a desire to invest in a product. The most money I've made for writing the way I want to is on Substack 😂
I often say to my husband, I really hope the kids don't want to do anything creative with their lives, and are happy to just do a job that pays the bills, because this path is soul destroying. I'm not sure it's responsible to tell them they can do anything, because I know how upsetting it can be when you don't get to do the anything you've set your heart on, but at the same time don't want to limit them - it's a really hard balance.
Yes exactly this. I think we’ve been there haven’t we so we can share those experiences with them. I hate being underemployed and undervalued and similarly have worked hard to then be up against others who are more valued for the wrong reasons in a similar industry and it is hard. It’s a struggle when you are trying to break into that world and previous success doesn’t guarantee future success. Also the kids thing: it has changed things and it’s getting harder with that.
I wonder how I can get him into dentistry or something like that 😂
I think about this a lot. I would never want my daughter to study literature like I did - of all the interesting things you can do, why choose the one where it is almost impossible to make a living. But my school was just focussed on how many people went to Oxford/Cambridge (great for rankings!) - setting people up for a decent career wasn't a priority and, when our teachers were growing up, it was still true that any old degree would get you a job. You can only base your choices on the info you have - but there weren't many jobs for literature graduates 15 years ago either!
That’s so true, my school was the same they were very frustrated by anyone who didn’t even attempt to get into oxbridge. Perhaps the whole idea of career longevity is outdated anyway, do people still stay in the same jobs for 40+years? I guess some do. Thanks for reading Susannah.
I'm a doctor and often feel very lucky that I have guaranteed work with defined hours, and that I can feel fairly confident that I can do 'something useful' just by turning up. I think I'd really struggle with the feelings you describe in a similar job, but I'm so thankful there are people like you doing your work because we need life to be beautiful and full of wonder and creativity! Otherwise what's the point!? It takes courage and I'm full of admiration, and fingers crossed your job climate improves soon.
You are so kind Laura, so interesting to hear your point of view on it too thank you!
Such a great post Kylie, you've really made me think about this. (Also You Choose is a favourite in our house)
I did Spanish and Sociology at uni,planned to be an English teacher in Spain, but then I met my husband and stayed here. I fell into uni admin and management, did that for 14 years. Then I retrained as a Coach and have been trying to build that up for a few years, but I haven't been very successful despite my efforts. It's disheartening and until my youngest goes to full time school, financially it doesn't make sense to work part time even. Things are up in the air with my husbands job atm too so a stressful time. My 10 yo daughter wants to be a singer and my 7yo middle son wants to do a hybrid job of 'being a Pokemon duel player and a comedian'! I do wonder if it will be worth them going to uni when they are older, and what jobs will look like for them, I want them to do what they love but you've also got to be practical too haven't you.
Thanks for sharing, Jenna.
Yeah it’s disheartening and I can vouch too that it is just limiting trying to build a business when children are still a responsibility. You can only do what you can do! I’ve been doing so much in person networking which when I had my kids around was impossible to attempt- it’s also something that takes time and I am learning that it’s taking more time than my pockets can afford at nursery but we take a step forward two steps back, another step forward, we’ll get there in the end!
PS thanks for your vulnerability and I hope you find some more work soon.
Thank you, Faith. I have had a little more luck this week after writing this actually, so fingers crossed things are looking up!
I think there is too much pressure to find work that is fulfilling and uses all our gifts and skills. Whilst I'm very privileged now to have self employed work that is creative and fulfilling and pays well I've also had jobs that weren't stretching at all and left me with lots of creative energy outside of work to do other things. My work now takes a lot of my physical, emotional and creative energy.
I've spoken with a few dads recently who are choosing to not apply for more interesting (and more stressful) jobs now so they have energy for their kids whilst the kids are young. But as you say many people don't get to choose and most of us face very real financial and practical limits when it comes to work especially when we are parents.
Our western culture focuses so much on individual dreams but does not acknowledge the system we live in or the relational impact on our friendships, families and communities of moving for work and to follow career opportunities. At the other end so many have to move away from they grew up due to lack of affordable housing or work.
Lots to think about!
Yes so much to think about thanks for reading Faith. Also interesting insight on dads - I guess we only have a limited amount of energy and what we want to do at the start of our careers invariably changes as well, and that’s nothing to feel guilty about.
I hadn’t thought about the moving away thing as that is us all over, although not miles away, there is even less work for me where my parents live! Makes you wonder if life would just be easier if I had gone into another career!
This is such a thought provoking question to be asking and I completely agree that there are unexamined restrictions around the idea that we can do/be anything (and that question of whether we SHOULD do whatever we want is an interesting one as well). I love the Japanese concept of Ikigai as a potential way of finding a ‘balanced’ personal response to these questions. I really like the idea of looking for the intersection of:
What you love
What you are good at
What the world needs
What you can get paid for
It’s obviously an idealised model and individual answers to each of those elements will likely change over time. I think it sometimes also requires a shift in perspective. I used to have a very obviously purpose driving career - working with children and young people, first as a youth worker, then in a pastoral role in a secondary school, then as a specialist teacher in literacy and English. My ‘why’ was always around wanting to support and nurture children and young people where they were - it was both what I loved and what I was good at (and what the world needs!). However, it sadly became increasingly difficult to be paid (well) for it. I moved from youth worker to working in schools because funding for youth service disappeared. And after several years in schools I started to lose my love for it because the system I was working in made it hard to meet young people where THEY were - it demanded they be dragged to where the system was. So I then had a dramatic change of career in an attempt to recover my own wellbeing. I moved into PR because I loved to write, was good at it and (in a commercial setting) could be paid for it. But I felt I’d lost touch with the ‘purpose’ bit - what the world needs. As I’ve grown in my new career, though, I’ve realised something the world needs is more private organisations that do the ‘right’ thing - treat people well, look after the planet, contribute positively to society etc. So that became my purpose focus. I work in a commercially driven, private sector business but I found a career path that enabled me to:
✨write and think creatively (what I love)
✨support and nurture people (what I’m good at)
✨develop people & planet centred business practices (what the world needs)
By working my way through various roles to become:
✨director of business development for a PR consultancy (what I can get paid for!)
My professional life looks wildly different from what I ever imagined for myself and it isn’t ‘vocationally driven’ in the way it once was, but allowing my understanding of what I love, what I’m good at and what the world needs to evolve, I’ve found a new and different professional fulfilment.
Thank you for this post, it really got me thinking! (Hence the super long comment!!😅)
This is amazing, Jen what a great response. I an thrilled it has provoked thought and the ideas here are a welcome support to my own piece. Those points are really interesting and I think my quibble is always the world doesn’t need this many graphic designers and maybe that’ll always be a sticking point unless I find more purpose driven work perhaps. It is interesting as well what you say about the pay for jobs the world might need not being there; and I think that says alot about us as a culture or society and how we value certain work. So much to think about. Thank you!
I can understand your quibbles but I also think the world genuinely needs as many artists as we can get! Visual communication is powerful and important, it improves accessibility and offers beauty in both expected and unexpected ways. Your work as a graphic designer has value in the world, even if you’re not working in a ‘classically’ purpose driven way.
I completely appreciate that it’s a challenge finding clients and opportunities that fulfil that purpose element though. ❤️
Absolutely thanks Jen that makes me feel better. Trouble is it’s all following the money and that’s not usually where the purpose driven stuff is although I’m sure there are exceptions. Likely it’s about finding that balance too!